The Talking Begins

Understanding Homosexuality meets Straight Into Gay America: (Post #2)

Here is Dr. David Glesne’s response to Lars Clausen’s request for a conversation. (October 3)Subsequent to this letter, Dave and Lars agreed to conduct our dialogue on this blog in order to enjoy a wider participation.

From now on we’ll be posting directly as we write our responses to one another. Thank you for comments to our first posting. I hope this will be a useful dialogue for many of us. If you know of others who will benefit from this conversation, please invite them to check in here at the blog. I hope to have my response by Wednesday or Thursday. Lars (Oct 9)

Dr. David Glesen agrees to conversation and addresses,

• early abuse leading to homosexuality.
• statistics about the gay "lifestyle."
• the reality of a gay agenda.

Dear Lars,

Your book and letter arrived a couple days ago. First of all, thanks for a copy of Straight Into Gay America: My Unicycle Journey for Equal Rights. I am looking forward to carving out some time to sit down and read it. I have asked my assistant to send you a complimentary copy as well so hopefully within a week or so you will be receiving a copy.

I very much appreciated the sincerity and tone of your letter. I am always a learner and I sense that you are as well. As you know, the homosexual issue is an extremely complex and emotionally charged issue. I always welcome honest dialogue and conversation.

Your biographical information was very helpful - thanks. It gives me a little glimpse, at least, into you as a person, your approach to life, and your experiences.

Perhaps the best way forward is for me to begin by responding to the specific questions you voiced. Since we have the use of cyberspace, we can go back and forth more readily.

Your first question has to do with the common assertion that LGBT people develop their orientation because of early abuse. First of all, a couple clarifications that may be important. The book centers predominantly on homosexuals. I do not take up the matter of bi-sexuality or transgender issues. I realize these are related to homosexuality but the distinction needs to be made. Second, the book is not asserting that all - or even a majority - of homosexual persons develop their orientation as the result of early abuse. As stated in the first paragraph of chapter 2, honest researchers are not really sure what causes homosexuality. However, they have been able to identify evidence pointing to contributing factors. Among those contributing factors is early homosexual experiences. On pages 37-38 I reference four studies that give evidence that sexual early homosexual experiences are such a contributing factor. On pages 39-41 I try to point out that contributing factors, however, vary from individual to individual. There are homosexual persons who have had no negative childhood homosexual experiences but rather a combination of other factors, etc., etc. The quote from Jeffrey Satinover on page 39 is about the best description of the complexity of the causes of homsoexuality that I have come across. (I realize you may have to wait for the book to arrive for you to check these pages if you have already returned the other copy.)

Again, a clarification. I do not address the matter of whether or not LGBT parents abuse their children if that is what you are saying. Maybe I am misunderstanding you here. I am not asserting that LGBT parents abuse their children. The studies referred to on page 38 speak of being abused by older men. They don't identify these older men as the fathers of these children.

Your second question challenges the statistics about the gay lifestyle on pages 44-46. As referenced there, the statistics come from a Dr. Stanley Monteith on the video commentary The Gay Agenda: The Report by Ty & Jeannette Beeson, 1993. Obtaining wholly accurate figures for such behavior is always going to be questionable but a second set of figures compares reasonably close to Monteith's statistics. One of the largest surveys ever conducted of homosexual sex practices was published by two homosexual researchers in 1979. In The Gay Report by Jay and Young, they reported that 99% engaged in oral sex; 91% had anal intercourse; 83% engaged in rimming; 22% had done fisting; 23% admitted to public or groups sex; 73% admitted having sex with boys; and 4% admitted to eating feces. [Reported by the Traditional Values Coalition in an article, "Homosexual Behavior Fuels AIDS and STD Epidemic". Website: www.traditionalvalues.org. Address: 139 C. St. SE, Washington, DC 2003] When you compare the two sets of figures they compare reasonably closely.

Now let me say a word of clarificaton. I need to make clear that I am not saying that all homosexual persons participate in these practices described by Monteith and Jay & Young. And I am not saying the figures are representative of the overall gay population. Both Monteith's figures and The Gay Report's figures, if I understand them correctly, would be descriptive not of the overall gay population but of that segment of the gay population that is involved in what they themselves refer to as "the gay lifestyle". At least, that is the way I am using them in the book. I surely don't mean to imply that all homosexual persons are involved in the gay lifestyle

As Gregory Rogers in his report on "The Gay Report" states, "It needs to be said that we are not asserting that all, or even a majority of gays partake of the above practices [referencing the figures in The Gay Report]. Indeed, as the study indicates, many such practices are condemned by many gays - but also openly praised by many [his italics]. If public opinion felt that all gays so partook, it was indeed in error." (http://www.narth.com/does/reporton.html)

Also, Dr. Monteith's figures are based, as I understand it, upon the research done by Paul Cameron who has been criticized by some scientists as not doing reliable research. It is hard to put a great deal of weight on their criticisms. They might be right but figures like Monteith's and Jay & Young are the best figures we have and those who criticize them need to come forth with better and more reliable figures. That is what we all are after, after all, the best and most reliable figures. Can it be that the reason so many researchers refuse to study homosexual behavior and its frequency is because it is not politically correct to do so? It is not enough to criticize without providing better statistics.

Thirdly, you question the reality of a gay agenda. I would encourage you to read After the Ball by Harvard graduates and homosexual activists Marshal Kirk and Hunter Madsen (1989) and the 1987 article titled "The Overhauling of Straight America" by Kirk and Erastes Pill, who sell out very clearly the homosexual agenda for America. This is an agenda that comes from homosexual activistis themselves. I would also recommend The Homosexual Agenda: Exposing the Principal Threat to Religious Freedom Today by Alan Sears and Craig Osten.

You also ask for clarity regarding ex-gay programs and their success rates. There are numerous testimonies of those who knew themselves to be gay and who know equally that their sexual orientation has changed. For someone to say that they weren't really gay in the first place just rings hollow and, it seems to me, betrays a bias that change is not possible. On pages 29-31 I point to biblical teaching, scientific studies and human experience all testifying to the reality that homosexuals can change. I would recommend going to the NARTH website as well for evidence that change is possible.

These are brief responses, but I hope they can move the conversation along.

Blessings,
Dave Glesne